Thursday, November 19, 2009

Jules Is A Mule (Part 3??!)

6E 15min
Yesterday was an interesting day - not just because I gave away 1k in a single trade again - so thought I'll talk about it.

I Shorted the 6E rather early in the morning (my morning and around 8pm NY time) coz, well, I was convinced 6E was going back down to test the spike low (see chart above). As with other days that I refused to think straight, I held on to the trade until I realized I couldn't be sure if price was going to stop going against me before the day ended. And as with all those other days that I was convinced that price would go to a certain place, price eventually did start going in my direction, or totally hit my target, either a few hours after my exit or 24 hours later.

All these days had been Wednesdays.

After I cut my loss, I had gone into my personal library to dig out some material I came across before, and to take a closer look at something that I never really took into account when I trade the futures: market participants (who they are - farmers/merchants/banks, speculators, hedge fund managers etc, and WHEN they operate).

My hypothesis about why the chart did what it did and why I kept hanging on to my biased view was confirmed when I traded the TF later in the evening (US morning of course) - when a wolfe pattern failed during lunch hour (learning very quickly from my 6E experience just hours before, I told D to refrain from buying a breakout - which is needed for price to get to wolfe target).

In any case, a hard stop would have saved me from myself. I had a lot of conviction, which was why I didn't want a stop to get in the way (what an irony). Extremely stupid, looking back. But then of course everything always appears obvious with the benefit of hindsight. It takes a hell lot of discipline and UNCOMMON SENSE to immediately recognize and stop a stupid act that's about to happen. I have neither discipline nor uncommon sense.

But I have an endless supply of energy. Maybe that's exactly what makes things worse. Instead of taking a hiatus after that 1k loss (6J took it!) from 2 weeks ago, I went right back to work after a 2-day break....

And after yesterday's 1k blunder, I went right back in to intervene in D's trading.

I had started off by telling D I would stop trading altogether for a while, and share with him about Wolfe Waves instead. After US market opened, D traded the account, taking his usual 1 to 3 ticks (since I said I wouldn't trade) before I spotted the wolfe pattern.

When I told him to go long at 595, he hesitated but went with it anyway. BUT he got out after 3 ticks instead of holding and moving his stops til we see the 3rd target (see chart below). When TF hit 600 in a parabolic move up, he blamed himself for not having persuaded me to take the trade myself.

As if things hadn't been bad enough up to that point, D had to sell at a place that I would buy, after TF pulled back from 600.

I hit the bid column on booktrader, covering his short.

D yelled "WHAT ARE YOU DOING??!!!" (I know, someone who has lost 1k just moments ago really shouldn't be meddling in the trade of another who has a record of zero to one losing day out of 20 on average) .

I was stunned, but only for seconds. Then I hit bid once more to get in on a long trade, at 3 ticks higher than where I had covered D's short (where I covered his short was exactly where I had wanted to go long - in other words, I had wanted to flip his trade - but D shocked me, and I was late hitting bid a second time as a result).

After I covered my long at +9 ticks, D thanked me for stopping his short at minimal damage, and for the rest of the day, we were in consultative mode (until I went in for my shower when D quietly took some "lunch time" trades).

It was fun - trading with D. And we might just do it again. I'm tempted to let D execute all the trades I identify. D doesn't lift stops - which means I can say goodbye to 2.5% drawdowns in a single trade forever.

On TWS - Red arrow shows where D entered on wolfe pattern, Blue arrow shows D's short that that I covered, Green arrow shows where I went long after covering D's short

TF 1min (my apologies for the blur - program was going to shut down, and I hadn't saved the chart, so needed to do a capture immediately - click to get a better view)


11 comments:

FXpropTrader said...

Hmm... the order flow, noise, discussions and atmosphere surrounded by people (on a trading floor) is something I miss when trading from home.

This post caught my eye cos I am stubborn as a mule. Makes trading a challenge :)

Mark Perkins said...

thanks for putting up that pattern. I haven't taken the time to figure it out yet also bc I dont know that instrument. I guess i should try and figure it out.

That one in the post below looks like a down wedge break sort of.

I probably don't know what I'm talking about bc I don't know that instrument but I wonder if this pattern will have sustainability as market conditions change. I remember with US stocks there were a ton of triangles in the last big run over the summer and they settled down now a good bit.

Jules said...

You were a floor trader, FXPT? Wow! I'm always hoping that I'll get the chance to be on the floor someday. Too bad that even floor traders have gone electronic...
You can't be as stubborn as me. Granny predicted that I was going to grow up really really bolshie just by examining my hair. LOL!

FXpropTrader said...

;) trading floor of banks/brokers not exchange floor - that's another world. more challenging... :)

everyone always says I'm stubborn... :P but I think you have an edge on perseverance....

Jules said...

Hi Mark,

I never really trust a pattern completely. A bet is always just a bet :-)

I told D to take the trade mainly because my instinct told me to. I wasn't expecting market to trend yesterday, so after a sharp drop from the open, I was comfortable with fading that move at about the time that market often reverses. TF had also made an 8 point move, which is about as much as it would go on a non-trending day these days.

So yes, I took the trade mainly coz I am familiar with TF. The pattern was kind of an alert (that it's time to make a move) :-)

For ETFs (I don't trade individual stocks), I tend to just buy near day low or above their 30-min opening range, and ignore patterns altogether.

Jules said...

LOL! You're so kind, FXPT! Thank you for calling it "perseverance"!

You worked in a bank? Is it the one you're giving business to/ stuck with now? :-)

Mark Perkins said...

ok cool. thanks for explaining your plan.

"or above their 30-min opening range, and ignore patterns altogether."

-sounds cool.

This is pretty bad. What instrument is TF? Big stock junkie here.

Mark Perkins said...

or rather what index, future contract does it represent?

Jules said...

Hahaha, Mark, and I'm a futures junkie!

TF is Emini Russell 2000 futures. It was called ER2 before it went to ICE.

It's one of the big 4 emini index futures. The others are YM (dow emini), ES (S&P 500 emini), and NQ (nasdaq 100).

ES has the highest volume, followed by TF (I think, could be NQ).

For TF, 10 ticks make up 1 point. 1 tick is $10. So, 1 point is $100. For ES, 1 point is $50, but 1 tick is $12.50.

daytrader233 said...

There's a wise Canadian banker/farmer (former on both apparently) I know that has a motto:

"The market decides how much money you make, you decide how much money you lose."

I'm not sure this will help but I thought I'd add it to the mix. :-)

Now if I could remember the chaps name????

Jules said...

I reckon you're talking about the wise Canadian that owns half of Alberta, DT? The one with a British cybog twin? LOL!!